most recent 30 from http://socialsounddesign.com 2013-05-18T06:49:47Z http://socialsounddesign.com/feeds/question/8993 http://www.creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/2.5/rdf http://socialsounddesign.com/questions/8993/foley-sampler-instrument-some-questions-to-sound-designers Simon Morgan 2011-07-06T15:17:22Z 2011-09-13T15:27:28Z

<p>Hi,</p> <p>I am a MSc Sound Design Student at Leeds Met Uni in the UK and for my final major project (starting now and handed in at the end of September) I am proposing to make a Kontakt-based sampler instrument for Foley. The rationale behind this is to create a sampler instrument that saves time, and more importantly money for creating basic foley for low budget film &amp; TV etc.</p> <p>As Foley is quite a vast area, I need to narrow down the possible areas covered by the instrument so I can complete the project in the time frame I have. I was thinking of starting off with footsteps as one of the sampler sounds.</p> <p>I would love your thoughts and ideas on what sounds I should concentrate on and suggestions of the operation of the instrument (for example random sample triggering for footsteps or an arpeggiator control to speed up/slow down steps)</p> <p>Also - I must mention that this pack may not be restricted to just human foley sounds. I shall be looking at all the options and may include such things as household sounds, vehicles or any other sounds. As it is so vast this is why I need you help and input on what I may include! I will also need testers as soon as I have a working model of the instrument.</p> <p>Looking forward to reading your replies.</p> <p>Cheers</p> <p>Simon Morgan</p>

http://socialsounddesign.com/questions/8993/foley-sampler-instrument-some-questions-to-sound-designers/8994#8994 Blue Owl Studios UK 2011-07-06T15:32:30Z 2011-07-06T15:32:30Z

<p>I've created a kind of style like this with N.I. Battery, you can trigger off the different samples and link things like volume &amp; pitch randomization with midi velocity etc. Really useful. You can just use it like you would program drums then perform it on a keyboard-and also assign effects to things like x-y pads.</p> <p>I saw a video for this kind of technique that the guy used with Wall-E ( he triggered the mechanical sounds of it moving) but cant track it down now. </p>

http://socialsounddesign.com/questions/8993/foley-sampler-instrument-some-questions-to-sound-designers/8996#8996 Marco Lopez 2011-07-06T16:03:13Z 2011-07-06T16:03:13Z

<p>It surely sounds interesting and I understand why you want to go there. But the thing is, and you can call me old school, recording Foley it's more about defining the personality of the character. Is he/she a bad guy, is he/she shy? Nervous? Relaxed? You can emphasize the psychology of the character through the recording of Foley. Every time I watch a cheap production, it takes me off when I hear a sample of, let's say footsteps. Bad quality, that they don't match at all the character and also in your face. So allow me to ask this: Isn't it time consuming to sync in picture the right kind of footsteps, using this sampler and later adding(if necessary) some reverb? IMHO i think it's faster to record and edit Foley... </p>

http://socialsounddesign.com/questions/8993/foley-sampler-instrument-some-questions-to-sound-designers/8997#8997 Shoeshine 2011-07-06T16:10:17Z 2011-07-06T16:10:17Z

<p>Foley seems like something that is done per-individual basis. Coin flipped. Low budget productions re-use foley to save time and money.</p>

http://socialsounddesign.com/questions/8993/foley-sampler-instrument-some-questions-to-sound-designers/8998#8998 Simon Morgan 2011-07-06T16:18:17Z 2011-07-06T16:18:17Z

<p>Also - I must mention that this pack may not be restricted to just human foley sounds. I shall be looking at all the options and may include such things as household sounds, vehicles or any other sounds. As it is so vast this is why I need you help and input on what I may include!</p> <p>Cheers.</p>

http://socialsounddesign.com/questions/8993/foley-sampler-instrument-some-questions-to-sound-designers/9000#9000 Dog and Pony 2011-07-06T16:59:23Z 2011-07-06T16:59:23Z

<p>We also use Battery in our three rooms for this very thing when projects don't have the time or budget for foley. The video Kyle Martyn-Clark refers to is on the Designing Sound page but you'll have to dig for it, it was up a few months ago. FYI, we tried this with Kontakt but felt the learning curve was much steeper than Battery in this regard. John.</p>

http://socialsounddesign.com/questions/8993/foley-sampler-instrument-some-questions-to-sound-designers/9006#9006 Will Tonna 2011-07-07T00:15:30Z 2011-07-07T00:15:30Z

<p>I would have to agree that, when compared side-by-side, Battery might be the easier alternative in this case. The interface is simpler and caters more towards the "one-shot" nature of footsteps (generally-speaking).</p> <p>Is your brief specifically for Kontakt or could you perhaps extend the idea? Maybe even produce one for each system and document the differences in approach?</p>

http://socialsounddesign.com/questions/8993/foley-sampler-instrument-some-questions-to-sound-designers/9010#9010 Roger Middenway 2011-07-07T13:41:45Z 2011-07-07T13:41:45Z

<p>I did this with Reason once. In the better sampler that it carries, you can assign a different footstep to each note. Then - you'll have to figure this out - i think there was a way to randomise the notes on the midi track in Pro Tools, making the foots sound a little less unnatural. And it'll be a little more natural sounding than just altering the pitch/eq.</p> <p>Also, see if you can find anything on Happy Feet. They loaded a sampler with different layers of stuff for at least some of the foot foley. There were the feet (leather i believe), as well as the surface (ice, dirt, etc.). I'm sure there was MUCH more to it than that though.</p> <p>As for other stuff like moves or door handling, you could load some into a sampler, but they're pretty specific, so i can't see it working that well. </p> <p>As Tim said, it is a false economy, but i see you understand that so i'll abort the lecture!</p>

http://socialsounddesign.com/questions/8993/foley-sampler-instrument-some-questions-to-sound-designers/9011#9011 dconn 2011-07-07T15:16:03Z 2011-07-07T15:16:03Z

<p>How about creating something with a little more usability in perhaps a max/msp environment? You could have a facility to load in a sample bank and then create a series of parameters to control them such as velocity/speed etc. Could go one step further and experiment with the wii sensor...? Just a suggestion..</p>

http://socialsounddesign.com/questions/8993/foley-sampler-instrument-some-questions-to-sound-designers/9012#9012 Michel Marchant 2011-07-07T16:11:00Z 2011-07-07T16:11:00Z

<p>This is the video you was talking about: <a href="http://designingsound.org/2010/10/video-tutorial-using-battery-for-sound-design/" rel="nofollow">http://designingsound.org/2010/10/video-tutorial-using-battery-for-sound-design/</a></p>

http://socialsounddesign.com/questions/8993/foley-sampler-instrument-some-questions-to-sound-designers/9013#9013 Bernard from Signo 2011-07-07T16:13:09Z 2011-07-07T16:13:09Z

<p>I'm building a foley/sound effects library for Kontakt right now. K4 may scare some guys cause it's not easy to dig inside but it's a fantastic tool. Patch well done can be a time and money-saver for low budget situation but for shure it cannot replace the foley artist even if it can do a lot of things. Working with samples layers, group layers, mod wheel crossfade, release triggering, multi-instruments and tweaking auto parameters can help to build realistic patch to help designer but starting from scratch is a lot learning, editing and brain overheating! You can look sfx categories from Sound Ideas, Hollywood Hedge to be inspired and figure what can be done with a sampler. Ex: footsteps on a patch and noise pants samples trigged by release on another can be useful. Add noise from a backbag or/and keys to the multi and so on. Now you can eq/filter/fx each patch, record it and keep it in midi until you're happy with the sequence.</p>

http://socialsounddesign.com/questions/8993/foley-sampler-instrument-some-questions-to-sound-designers/9014#9014 Matt 2011-07-07T18:00:33Z 2011-07-07T18:00:33Z

<p>I'm not sure how this would be better than loading footsteps from a sound effects library into Recycle, cutting them up then playing them from a sampler.</p> <p>More interesting would be having a randomisation of the sounds, ability to use a real-time controller to vary the surface, speed and distance (keeping in mind that any of these may need to change instantly to accomodate a change of POV in the camera).</p> <p>For non-footstep stuff the needs are often so specific that it would either have to be a vast library or in some way be highly editable whilst being quicker and cheaper than recording your own foley.</p> <p>(Also I used to study at LMU, but that is before they started doing post-grad degrees in sound design).</p>

http://socialsounddesign.com/questions/8993/foley-sampler-instrument-some-questions-to-sound-designers/9026#9026 WAudio 2011-07-08T11:22:18Z 2011-07-08T11:22:18Z

<p>Did attempt something like this in Kontact to help with foley snow footsteps in deep snow. The time it took to set it all up and map it out was a killer and in the end I found that best way was if i layered the different snow FX and snow footsteps samples in Kontact and just played them out varying pitch, speed, length etc. I got a great run of variations for my footsteps to add to the existing foley. Still had to cut them all in though so probably not what you need. </p>

http://socialsounddesign.com/questions/8993/foley-sampler-instrument-some-questions-to-sound-designers/9029#9029 Bernard from Signo 2011-07-08T12:14:51Z 2011-07-08T12:14:51Z

<p>That's why I'm building K4 footsteps patches ;O)</p>

http://socialsounddesign.com/questions/8993/foley-sampler-instrument-some-questions-to-sound-designers/9056#9056 Chris Phillips Leeds Met 2011-07-10T05:44:37Z 2011-07-10T05:44:37Z

<p>Hi Simon, I guess there's not much more I can tell you about this that has not already been said. But Kontakt is a great sampler if you have the time to fully workout how to use it. It can be immensely great for workflow especially for your scenario.</p> <p>I too used Kontakt quite heavily for my final sound to film project at Leeds Met. Obviously it would be great if you could utilize the Foley room there with some Foley artists, because of the organic expression of the act, and the speed of workflow. But needless to say, if the studios at JG are too busy as they always where, using a sampled based library and a sampler is definitely the best option. Creating instruments like footsteps, spot effect, sword fighting etc.. it can save alot of time, depending on the complexity of your film.</p> <p>Good Luck and always ask Richard Stevens &amp; Nikos Stavropolous for a 2nd opinion on your work, they can be critical &amp; harsh but great tutors who know their stuff and can offer great advice!</p>

http://socialsounddesign.com/questions/8993/foley-sampler-instrument-some-questions-to-sound-designers/9076#9076 Simon Morgan 2011-07-11T15:27:27Z 2011-07-11T15:27:27Z

<p>Thanks everyone for the opinions and advice you have given so far! Keep them coming.</p> <p>Thanks</p> <p>Simon</p>

http://socialsounddesign.com/questions/8993/foley-sampler-instrument-some-questions-to-sound-designers/9077#9077 edmatthews82 2011-07-11T16:49:12Z 2011-07-11T16:49:12Z

<p>I may sound condescending and I do apologise but...loading sounds into a sampler is your final project for your masters? Also have you recorded foley before? I studied sound design and many of the people on my course didn't even touch film and tv.</p> <p>I personally feel foley needs to be recorded to picture. A sword swipe will differ in every movement as will footsteps. Cheap foley recorded onto an H4N or even cheaper equivalent in a bedroom would stil sound better than library sounds being triggered off a sampler. The instrument in foley is the performer himself NOT what it's triggered off.</p> <p>If you are adamant to do this though, then I think take into account what Matt said above about randomisation which you can do in samplers but even then it won't sound brilliant. Also layering as Bernard Signo is talking about sounds interesting, such as cloth chain muddy water footsteps for a soldier in a jungle... and maybe see if you can add reverb into the chain, record some IR's and throw that in. After all this is all about cutting corners, cost and the necessity for a sound designer.</p>

http://socialsounddesign.com/questions/8993/foley-sampler-instrument-some-questions-to-sound-designers/9081#9081 Olle Sjöström 2011-07-11T21:16:30Z 2011-07-11T21:16:30Z

<p>Hi Simon! I think it's great you're trying this on. It's clear that sound for film is going to change its way of working and I think this is "the future", however not necessarily in foley. I think that a good foley sampler needs to be in some way incorporated with the imagery, much like in games. I mean, in a specific scene of a game you can set the "mood" of a space and get the footsteps to sound differently depending on the mood of that "level". Eventually, I think that way of working will come to movies as well. That would be handy for TV shows, etc. </p> <p>But I read this and I instantly thought "This would be great for ambiances" It might be off topic, but the concept is the same. This would be great for ambiances in the sense that you can load different elements into an ambiance and change it just like that without having to load different samples all the time. I bumped into this issue as I was building a project that I had mixed in stereo and I wanted to make a 5.1 mix out of it. My first reaction was "sigh, now I have to rebuild the ALL the ambiances". But this project got me thinking that with a MIDI sequencer and a good sample patch I could be "painting" the ambiances real quick and easy. But then again I'm not really sure about that either, I mean let's say I wanted to listen to a scene and check out a specific piece of the ambiance, I'd have to retrigger the MIDI event, i.e from the start of the MIDI trigger. Could get frustrating, but hey! That could actually be a time saver. </p> <p>I honestly think this is a good project, since it's a school project. I don't think it would make it to the market, but it's a way of asking: "Shouldn't we rethink the way we make soundtracks?" And there's always the budgetary reasons and what have you.</p> <p>And sorry for the bad english, I hope you can understand some of it. :)</p> <p>Looking forward to reading your progression on this! Take care</p>

http://socialsounddesign.com/questions/8993/foley-sampler-instrument-some-questions-to-sound-designers/9113#9113 Bernard from Signo 2011-07-13T01:56:17Z 2011-07-13T01:56:17Z

<p>Well the thing is that a sampler like Kontakt is a complex tool with a lot of possibilities and it's more sophisticate than some of you think. It's not simple as drag and drop in the sampler and triggered sounds straight to pro tools. The problem is that there is no good foley/sound effects samples libraries available on the market. K4 is a fantastic tool for the designer but don't worry, the foley artist won't disappear suddenly.</p>

http://socialsounddesign.com/questions/8993/foley-sampler-instrument-some-questions-to-sound-designers/10296#10296 durk 2011-09-13T15:27:28Z 2011-09-13T15:27:28Z

<p>Soemthing like this? <a href="http://durkkooistra.com/2011/09/freebee-a-free-kontakt-instrument-3d-flying-insect-simulation/" rel="nofollow">http://durkkooistra.com/2011/09/freebee-a-free-kontakt-instrument-3d-flying-insect-simulation/</a></p>